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pppeeeppee
Junior Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 26
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 Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr Mahogany wrote: | | I'm giving up because I'm sure we all have something beter to do and my interest is just a fascination with how far a person will go in pursuing a point without rational. |
I give up as well, because communicating through a forum about topics like this is quite impossible. Like I said if I were there with you in person then I wouldn't have a problem explaining my reasoning's, but because we are actually from different parts of the world its rather difficult to type something without any misconceptions. I expected to create a topic and mabe withing 10 replies people would have gotten the idea by now, but because no one understands me(I must be advanced at this or something) its pointless to talk about. Honestly as I said before there are hundreds of ways this protocol can improve the way it is now, but if you don't see it then its like me leading a sick horse to a well to drink.
| Mr Mahogany wrote: |
#1 and 2 the same reason
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Ummm no. You see there goes my point again, communication through a forum(about topics like this is impossible) The reason why I had gave such detail answers before(because remember you had asked me to list 5 reasons, one sentence for each) was so that you don't mixed the 2 and understand the idea
Reason #1 was talking about the the protocol and creating a common universal protocol for the programs to adapt to, so that if you save/bounce down your files into this extension all daw's would be able to read and load the files. This is the same idea like midi
Reason #2 Was talking about that gap I was talking about earlier. Remember when I said there are things that you cannot do from one host to another(If you rewire or midi, etc) well this was kind of bridging the gap. Right now you can't do automation with midi and its been an issue because automation is a huge aspect of production. So The reason why these are 2 separate reasons is because even if you still manage to program a common universal protocol(To combine audio and midi as one) you still have that gap to fill. Which is automation and parameters to be saved and be edited by any program.
| Mr Mahogany wrote: |
#3 indecipherable (at least to me), unless you mean # 2 which is the same as #1
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Reason # 3 is talking about rewire altogether, so this is definitely not the same as #1 or #2. #3 was a little bit of a response to what "aural" had brought up | pppeeeppee wrote: | | aural wrote: |
the synth is just an example. it could have been any device that receives MIDI-Data and produces sound, so it could have been a software-synth as well or a sampler or reason for that matter.
i was paraphrasing what you pointed out earlier. of course midi goes from the DAW to the synth and then the audio goes the same way back. yet your former description pretty clearly stated that with your proposition this is no longer the case, that there is just ONE master source. so i was referring to the way you explained your idea. |
Depending on the tasks your trying to do. Remember earlier | pppeeeppee wrote: | | 1) sequencing can be done further more 2) different effects can be added 3) for mixdown 4) one device/daw might have a feature that the other device doesn't have, and you would like to use that feature 5) to bounce down to cd format. In order to complete any of those tasks that I mentioned, your going to use audio and midi, so right there we have 2 devices/daw's and a task to complete. To complete any of those task which I have mentioned audio and midi is going to come from one device/daw your interfacing/rewiring and going into another. |
when I had said that there are reasons for syncing/rewiring 2 devices/daws together, I had named 5 reasons for syncing up 2 devices and out of all of the reasons no matter what you do your going to use audio and midi. In order to complete any of the tasks audio and midi is going to come from one source to another. It all depends on the tasks your trying to complete.
The idea I'm thinking of is that the protocol can be programmed to act as a source or not(kind of like the idea of master/slave) |
Okay the idea behind this, was to explain that there could of been a problem just having only one source so I explained that instead of just having only one source why not program it to have the option to act as a source and an option to not act as a source(like master and slave)
| Mr Mahogany wrote: |
#4 can already be done with midi and is still the same as #1
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Oh you didn't understand, I see.
Okay you know how in reason where you have controls and parameters(lets take the nn-xt for example) there hundreds of different parameters. Okay the gap here is that not every control or parameter is linkable. For example the <and> tabs(to select to next presets/sounds) are not linkable to midi channels. Therefore I have to switch in between windows(having to keep going back into reason) to select a next preset. The gap here is that not every control is linkable. This is why a standard like this needs to be created. Wouldn't it be interesting to link a control from a sound module to a audio and midi controller, so that you don't have to keep on reaching your hand over to the other side of the room to select a different sound. We would finally have a real midi controller that controls every aspect of a device that its synced/rewired to |
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aural
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Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 533
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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let me try to come up with something to sort of solve this.
i could think of a way that kind of incorporates your idea:
we already have the .omf-standard that allows to transfer projects between DAWs, yet there is no Information concerning automation in there. it may be beneficial to be able to save the automation-data in an invisible MIDI-file that is linked to the related audio-track. while exporting that .omf-file you simply determine what CC# controls which parameter (i.e. panning, level, etc...). when you import it, you just tell your DAW that "key" to unlock the automation and there you go. so i could see your idea actually more like an "expanded .omf" or ".omf 3". this is sth that could be done and maybe will be done sometime... maybe we can reduce your idea to this, because concerning everything else, i really don´t see any point in your proposal either, because invoking a new standard in the way you described it, is in my opinion utterly impossible and also not desirable.
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jacob greene
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Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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WOW! I was in complete shock at the level of ignorance on this topic. I actually cringed reading through this topic because some of you guys were so ignorant that you don't even realize how unintelligent you sound in this field. I understood exactly what pppeeeppee said in the very first comment which is why I am dumbfounded as why people didn't understand pppeeeppee.
Overall what I think pppeeeppee tried to get you to realize is from using general midi to computers we haven't advanced which is the ideal purpose of this entire topic. Vhs to dvd is a huge advanced because unlike vhs you don't have the pleasures to go through entire chapters and there is no option to select audio 5.1 or 7.1 like you can on dvd. Using midi to computers didn't advanced at all and that was what I understood reading this topic. Although I don't agree 99% of what pppeeeppee said I am flabbergasted as to why automation is obsolete to midi which was one of the things he talked about but yet none of you guys had a answer. What I found puzzling is that a member tried to justify the absence of automation by saying that it is irrelevant
| Mr Mahogany wrote: | | The software does emulate the way hardware works because that the easiest way to work with the 2 data streams |
Are you serious... Was I the only one to have to read this? Yeah its easier in your head because your so ignorant that you can't even think outside what you think you know. |
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Mr Mahogany
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Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1465
Location: San Francisco Ca
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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jacob greene writes:
"Are you serious... Was I the only one to have to read this? Yeah its easier in your head because your so ignorant that you can't even think outside what you think you know."
Hey, nice first post in this forum! Welcome!
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Kubaez
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 1056
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| jacob greene wrote: | | Vhs to dvd is a huge advanced because unlike vhs you don't have the pleasures to go through entire chapters and there is no option to select audio 5.1 or 7.1 like you can on dvd. |
I guess this should read "unlike vhs you do have ... and there is an option to ..."
(But I'm sure you'll find some blokes who will support you by posting that they "understood exactly what jacob greene said in the very first comment".) |
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Mr Mahogany
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1465
Location: San Francisco Ca
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| Kubaez wrote: | | jacob greene wrote: | | Vhs to dvd is a huge advanced because unlike vhs you don't have the pleasures to go through entire chapters and there is no option to select audio 5.1 or 7.1 like you can on dvd. |
I guess this should read "unlike vhs you do have ... and there is an option to ..."
(But I'm sure you'll find some blokes who will support you by posting that they "understood exactly what jacob greene said in the very first comment".) |
"jacob" has a pretty amazing fiirst post. Here he revives a topic thats 10 months dead ,comes in guns blazing with an insulting tone about a topic thats just theorectical and really not important and doesn't even have a number on file.
This seems to me like a reregistered nut job working through person issues
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manakesna
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 127
Location: yawnsville
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Tbh, I accidentally clicked on this thread but after reading the first few posts, it somehow absorbed me.
I am not sure if the OP was seriously trying to make a point or simply enjoyed testing human constitution,
but i admire the time spent from the peeps here to discuss what actually, at least as an argument, belongs
to the twilight zone.
As far as it concerns Mr. Greene's dynamic entrance and wit | Quote: | | as Mr Mahogany wrote: Hey, nice first post in this forum! Welcome! |
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jacob greene
New Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Kubaez wrote: | | jacob greene wrote: | | Vhs to dvd is a huge advanced because unlike vhs you don't have the pleasures to go through entire chapters and there is no option to select audio 5.1 or 7.1 like you can on dvd. |
I guess this should read "unlike vhs you do have ... and there is an option to ..."
(But I'm sure you'll find some blokes who will support you by posting that they "understood exactly what jacob greene said in the very first comment".) |
This is a something I would expect from an american but it says your from Switzerland? I hope your not making jokes on my english
| Mr Mahogany wrote: | | Kubaez wrote: | | jacob greene wrote: | | Vhs to dvd is a huge advanced because unlike vhs you don't have the pleasures to go through entire chapters and there is no option to select audio 5.1 or 7.1 like you can on dvd. |
I guess this should read "unlike vhs you do have ... and there is an option to ..."
(But I'm sure you'll find some blokes who will support you by posting that they "understood exactly what jacob greene said in the very first comment".) |
"jacob" has a pretty amazing fiirst post. Here he revives a topic thats 10 months dead ,comes in guns blazing with an insulting tone about a topic thats just theorectical and really not important and doesn't even have a number on file.
This seems to me like a reregistered nut job working through person issues |
eh.. I apologized if I offended you. I was shown this topic on another forum. I like to notice that you still have not answered my question and instead persist on showing your ignorance by ignoring it. Could you please tell us how and why automation is not important. I really would like to clarify or better understand why you would say that automation is not important |
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Mr Mahogany
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1465
Location: San Francisco Ca
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| jacob greene wrote: | | Kubaez wrote: | | jacob greene wrote: | | Vhs to dvd is a huge advanced because unlike vhs you don't have the pleasures to go through entire chapters and there is no option to select audio 5.1 or 7.1 like you can on dvd. |
I guess this should read "unlike vhs you do have ... and there is an option to ..."
(But I'm sure you'll find some blokes who will support you by posting that they "understood exactly what jacob greene said in the very first comment".) |
This is a something I would expect from an american but it says your from Switzerland? I hope your not making jokes on my english
| Mr Mahogany wrote: | | Kubaez wrote: | | jacob greene wrote: | | Vhs to dvd is a huge advanced because unlike vhs you don't have the pleasures to go through entire chapters and there is no option to select audio 5.1 or 7.1 like you can on dvd. |
I guess this should read "unlike vhs you do have ... and there is an option to ..."
(But I'm sure you'll find some blokes who will support you by posting that they "understood exactly what jacob greene said in the very first comment".) |
"jacob" has a pretty amazing fiirst post. Here he revives a topic thats 10 months dead ,comes in guns blazing with an insulting tone about a topic thats just theorectical and really not important and doesn't even have a number on file.
This seems to me like a reregistered nut job working through person issues |
eh.. I apologized if I offended you. I was shown this topic on another forum. I like to notice that you still have not answered my question and instead persist on showing your ignorance by ignoring it. Could you please tell us how and why automation is not important. I really would like to clarify or better understand why you would say that automation is not important |
Jacob:
You quoted me from 10 months ago saying
"The software does emulate the way hardware works because that the easiest way to work with the 2 data streams"
Nothing in what I said mentions automation. I have no idea whta you're talking about. Also your quote is
"Are you serious... Was I the only one to have to read this? Yeah its easier in your head because your so ignorant that you can't even think outside what you think you know."
The only question you seem to be asking me is "Are you serious"? . Yes , I'm serious.
Nowhere else did you ask a question in your first ever post. This means that nowhere else would I be avoiding an answer , especially on a topic that I wasn't discussing- automation. I didn't say anything about the importance of automation anywhere at any time. You seem really confused and suspeciously angry for a person commenting on a 10 month old thread about a theorectical new standard for midi and audio. The words and tone you're willing to use in a first ever post here about a benign topic don't add up to me.
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Kubaez
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 1056
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| jacob greene wrote: | | I hope your not making jokes on my english |
a) Why not?
b) It's not about your english, it's about logic within a sentence.
PS: MIDI and audio in the same wire is not a new idea. Steinberg introduced this concept in "VST System Link" many years ago. |
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jacob greene
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Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr Mahogany wrote: | | Automation isn't that important |
explain this. "Mr" in pppeee example he says you cannot transfer automation from program to program you said it is not important. That is what I am calling you out on |
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Mr Mahogany
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1465
Location: San Francisco Ca
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| jacob greene wrote: | | Mr Mahogany wrote: | | Automation isn't that important |
explain this. "Mr" in pppeee example he says you cannot transfer automation from program to program you said it is not important. That is what I am calling you out on |
I wonder who you really are? Must be some former poster with s grudge as otherwise this whole thing is pretty silly. You're calling me out??? No you're not. You're partially quoting to continue the confusion/distortion What I said was
"Automation isn't that important unless you're a real beginner and just can't mix in the first place. However if a user relies on automation instead of learning how to mix just include notes on what you've done. "
I stand behind that 100% . I won't respond to anything else from you . You've very confused and pretty angry with a big chip on your shoulder ("This is a something I would expect from an american" - how many americans do you know?) : a bad combo in a forum .
Find someone else to explain audio production to you.
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jacob greene
New Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr Mahogany wrote: |
"Automation isn't that important unless you're a real beginner and just can't mix in the first place. However if a user relies on automation instead of learning how to mix just include notes on what you've done. "
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Just as I expected. You are as clueless as anything. what does automation have to do with mixing? do you even know what automation is?
| Mr Mahogany wrote: |
I stand behind that 100% . |
 you sure about that
| Mr Mahogany wrote: | | I won't respond to anything else from you . |
yeah Im sure you will not respond because now your showing yourself to be clueless on the subject and not knowing what you are talking about. I sense you being afraid because someone is putting you in your place it it makes you uncomfortable doesn't it. |
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Kubaez
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 1056
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| jacob greene wrote: | | I sense you being afraid because someone is putting you in your place |
This is not an online video game, it's a Steinberg user forum. In all your posts there is not a single letter that refers to the actual topic of this thread. Attacking people just for the sake of attacking them doesn't make sense. |
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Bob Yordan
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 2504
Location: EUtopia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Midi is a very old slow data communication standard. It needs to be backward compatible.
So if anyone start to messing around with it and the you eg connect an external synth to your
DAW and start sending audio to it, that might not be the best way to go. 
Midi is basically only info on when keys are pressed and released and some other data from controllers
like pedals, pitch wheel etc and configuration data to synths (Sys exklusive).
Older audio gear like stereo amp from eg Germany used din-connectors and cables for audio, these cables
can be also be used as midi cables (mostly), I still have 20-30 cables that I used in my older configurations in the
studio.
Logic has a cool feature that can be applied on midi tracks with VSTi (synths), that bounces the track in place
to an audio track. 
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