Have I missed the point or ? ...

LeVzi · Member Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 195

am I going mad ?

I just read the thread about a reported bug being acknowledged by Steinberg, which will be fixed in Cubase 6. Now call me stupid, but surely if there is a bug in the version of Cubase you own, it should be fixed at no extra cost ? You have to actually pay to get the bug fixes ? Forgive me if I come across as naive but Cubase 5 is my first version, so I am quite new, but seems to me that bugs like the automation one, and maybe the real time export problem with CPU overload WHICH is something I think we all suffer with, will be fixed but in order to get that fix, we must pay for Cubase 6.

Now like I said, maybe I missed the whole point of using Cubase, I thought it was a 1 stop shop for audio production and Steinberg were a company that cared enough to fix problems with each version before upgrading.

Maybe this has been said before, maybe this is old news, but i'd like it explained to me, as maybe I am in the wrong and am making accusations with no foundations.

Either way, i'd appreciate some insight into this.
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quoid · Member Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 195 Location: NYC

nope you're right.

I do not know about the bug you mention, or the confirmation that it will not be fixed in 5, but if it is true, it is just typical software dev sleezy business practices.

Basically these software companies want users to become subscribers, just like netflix or something, except they charge us ~bi-annually and give us a product that is in a perpetual state of "getting fixed to work as intended."
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AudioCave · Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 1469

I don't know guys. There's been a recent - and quite surprising - influx of positive mod activity here so I can only hope that translates across the board. Maybe we'll see another update before Cubase 6.

Keep hope alive! Laughing

At the very least - already having a dongle - you can test the Cubase 6 demo for 30 days before buying so you'll get a good chance to see any version 6 (or leftover) bugs before purchasing. I plan to download the V6 demo even though I have no intention of upgrading.
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quoid · Member Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 195 Location: NYC

SW DAW Tuition · Member Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 120 Location: Warwick

Which bug is this to do with automation. Man please tell me that's not broken?

AudioCave · Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 1469

Vocalpoint · Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject:

AudioCave · Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 1469

Conman · Member Joined: 25 Jun 2010 Posts: 429

The problem seems to be that when automation events are nudged they go out of sync.
Depending on your workstyle it might not matter but the OP has a large point and it's reasonable to expect that they would fix it in the present version if they could.

It could depend whether it makes it to their to-do lists in the present timeframe of their development schedule.
And sometimes it's hard to tell if one is dealing with hundreds of coders in a vast office or five guys in a tent. In any case the communications operative is locked in the toilet. Twisted Evil

At least unlike companies like Serif they don't ring you up every other day with a "new" offer. I can forgo a couple of bugs when they don't do that. Very Happy

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Vocalpoint · Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject:

Tp3 · Member Joined: 21 Apr 2007 Posts: 219

johngar · Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject:

LeVzi · Member Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 195

Sorry I didn't make myself clearer in the original post

http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=142871

Which was locked with the comment

LeVzi · Member Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 195

quoid · Member Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 195 Location: NYC

Tp3 · Member Joined: 21 Apr 2007 Posts: 219

AudioCave · Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 1469

Crotchety · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:17 am Post subject:

I haven't read all the posts here but I agree with the general point raised here in the OP. Bug fixes ought to be released separately from chargeable upgrades and so what if no-one else does it that way. Take the lead.

Sorry to use the M-word but surely it is immoral to do otherwise...
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LeVzi · Member Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 195

I basically am going purely on what I saw, that a bug was acknowledged and is to be fixed in a PAID upgrade only, not a free maintenance download. If Cubase 6 is a selection of bugfixes for C5 + new content, then why not separate the bugfixes and allow them as a C5 maintenance update only, and the new content as the pay if you want C6.

Thats, of course, common sense, something that doesn't exist in 90% of any business.

Maybe there is one more patch to fix a few more things prior to the C6 release, in which case I ask Chris why he stated a bugfix would be exclusive to Cubase 6.

Or in fact, Steinberg are definately holding back bugfixes for the newer version. In which case, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

I'd love offical words on this, just to confirm or deny it all, one way or the other, but I guess that really would be too much to ask.

I am very happy with Cubase, was the best move DAW wise i've made, BUT, with the automation bug that was mentioned and the one I have issues with, the real time render CPU Overload, I would hope they get fixed prior to C6. If they did, the upgrade to C6 would be a no brainer, and my faith in Steinberg 100% restored, and every upgrade there after, as at least you know each new version gets 100% patched and is working perfectly LIKE IT SHOULD before they move onwards.

That would be a 1st imo.
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chase · Member Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 429

merfman · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:25 am Post subject:

I jumped from Cubase SL to Cubase 5. Expensive but worth it when considering the improvement in the general midi VST's, which are better than some of my hardware modules IMHO. Also I wanted Vari-Audio as I was dicked of with Antares support when I had older version of Autotune.

Same with 6 - if it has extra functionality in it I might shell. But I wont be buying it just for bug fixes that can be easily worked around.
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cantankerous · Member Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 390

I was taken back by Chris comment when I read it earlier this week too. The fact that I couldn't even reply in the thread cause it was locked was also rubbish. I am also annoyed that the mess up Steinberg themselves introduced with the mix knob in reverence on group channels will not be fixed until C6 as well so it was stated.
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garymusic · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:37 am Post subject:

They just do it because they can. For me, I am just happy with what I have in 5.0.1. Yes, there are bugs still, but no more than 5.5.2, maybe even less. It works. I can live with it and make music with it. It never crashes.

Gary
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Coppersky · Junior Member Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Posts: 53

Tp3 · Member Joined: 21 Apr 2007 Posts: 219

Elien · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:39 am Post subject:

Concering the original question/posting:

Steinberg does what every software supplier does. There are ALWAYS bugs in applications. And we have to pay for them. Everywhere in commercial software development. The "Framwork" of doing that is different from supplier to supplier.

Actually, with Cubase/Steinberg we/sou pay a maintenance fee that covers the whole further evolution of the product, both in terms of bugfixing and feature evolution/development. This maintenance fee is "labeld" as the upgrade price from version to version.

So it might seem hard to understand to hear "The bug will be fixed in the next release" but : This is the way things are with EVERY commercial software. Just the pricing-Labels are different.

Cheers, Ernst

Ps.: "The more complex a software is the harder it is to make it bugfree"... yes: It is the nature of software to be not-bugfree. At the end of software evolution - in some 100 years when we will see real artificial intelligence this will be accompanied by fully irrational behaviour of the software (just like human beings). Bugs are natural price for stepping into a direction of "intelligence". And we see the early stages of this evolution.

Tp3 · Member Joined: 21 Apr 2007 Posts: 219

zebbie · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:40 am Post subject:

Elien wrote:

bob1474 · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:31 pm Post subject: Bugs

Very good discussion here. For me it's a confidence/public relations issue. Althought not in the software business, i can't imagine our customers purchasing a product from us, letting us know it does not work properly, and us telling them "too bad, we know it has issues, so just buy the new one from us next year and all will probably be fine!!" We'd be gone in short order.
I'm thinking one should upgrade because a new version has extra value over the version you have now-not to "repair" what you've already purchased. I've always followed the upgrade paths (like the "sheep" mentioned in an earlier post) but now find myself, as others mentioned, questioning the bussiness ethics of this way of thinking.
Do I now look elsewhere to find the same thing occuring in other companies? Our company policy does not hinge on what other like companies are doing (or not doing).
An analogy? Which airline company would fare better in the businness world, one that constantly strived to get you to where you want to go safely and in a timely manner since you already purchased a ticket, or one that just says "well OUR airplanes go farther than anyone elses before they crash!" I would gladly buy another ticket from the first company when they rolled out a shiny new airplane, because I would have confidence in thier business model. Just a little venting from a normally happy user. Surprised

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LeVzi · Member Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 195

I find it strange as well, that a smaller company like Image Line can offer lifetime free updates which incorperate bugfixes AND new software yet Steinberg will charge for them. OK I'm not expecting Steinberg to go down that route, but as far as bugfixes are concerned, then yes, they should completely fix each version before updating.

I've stated the one bug I am effected by, the real time export. The one that Chris commented on, the automation error. And others. Those that are problems with the core program must be fixed, those that involve third party errors, I guess can be part of the update/upgrade to C6 option as thats beyond SB's control (I assume)

Therefore, the way around it, is to use cubase native plugins , create a project, if the problem is still there, Steinberg are obliged to fix it before C6, or I am sure there would be legal issues somewhere. (I hate thinking in terms of that, but when you talk about the price paid for Cubase and it's upgrades, you'd expect nothing less.)

Just out of interest I don't pay any attention to it, but does Nuendo suffer with the same issues in terms of bugfixes and upgrades ?
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