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Pearldivers
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 Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject: [Music] Epilogue (The Penitent Mix)---The Pearldivers |
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Warning Will Robinson: rapid post mode. 
Final track on my new album.
Accordingly, it's entitled:
Epilogue
Hope you like it.
Jet 
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slipstream
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Great way to start the day today!! This one will get many plays in my household. And car. And while skiing. Can't wait to get the whole bunch of tunes on a disc. |
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mixup23
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Fabulous. Great lyrics and presentation.
Your guitar is the hero here. I love the ocassional string noise!!!
The strings provide a nice balance. And your vocals are strong.
Thanks for sharing, and Happy Thanksgiving
Michael
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FastnLoose
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Nice. Clever last tune title. Beautiful lyrics.
that's a really nice classical guitar part and well recorded. If I was the guitarist,
once the second verse began I'd be tempted to turn around and shout
"Yo-Yo Ma - ya wanna back off on the big violin a smidge?!" 
you might consider bringing those strings back a couple of db, at least at first, because
the fullness of sound and the clarity of the guitar gets lost as soon as those strings come in.
You might consider doubling the guitar when the strings come in, but you may want to stay with the
lone guitarist, and backing off the strings might do it.
then perhaps let the strings start to be dominant when you sing 'Morning in arching ascent'....
And maybe give that guy in the song pic a shave, this is, after all, a public display. 
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blueonblue
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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excellent lyrics and vocal as usual, you have such a great feel for a song.
btw, beautiful acoustic guitar
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ZapAxe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Nice one Jet ... Very enjoyable to listen to ...several times now
If I was to try and find anything to change at all, I'd say bring the string section level back in the distance a bit, also EQ it a little as to not hog frequecies for the rest of the tune. Is this string section all mono? It would be nice to hear some stereo separation in some of the instruments... Eh, better than I can do mind you 
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Sherz
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Another beautiful song Jet!  And I know I sound like a stuck record... but once again your lyrics are an inspiration...
And yeah... you've got some challenges with this mix with regard to the the strings as others have mentioned. I like their level relative to the vocal, perhaps a notch lower, but the guitar is really being swamped by them unfortunately. Also, I notice they seemed to be reversed (L <-> R) to what is the usual convention... cellos on the right, violins on the left. I'm sure you'll figure an optimal mix out but I wonder for now if maybe the strings could be spread wider?  I've often found I've had to push the panning to extremes with string sections to help keep centre-stage clear, that and some fairly aggressive EQ in the 'business area' of the mix.
Nice!
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Last edited by Sherz on Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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slipstream
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| FastnLoose wrote: | Nice. Clever last tune title. Beautiful lyrics.
that's a really nice classical guitar part and well recorded. If I was the guitarist,
once the second verse began I'd be tempted to turn around and shout
"Yo-Yo Ma - ya wanna back off on the big violin a smidge?!"
you might consider bringing those strings back a couple of db, at least at first, because
the fullness of sound and the clarity of the guitar gets lost as soon as those strings come in.
You might consider doubling the guitar when the strings come in, but you may want to stay with the
lone guitarist, and backing off the strings might do it.
then perhaps let the strings start to be dominant when you sing 'Morning in arching ascent'....
And maybe give that guy in the song pic a shave, this is, after all, a public display. |
I see the point Lenny..................but I also like this just as it's presented. The transitions are nice and dynamic! I too love the guitar sound and see how it gets a little lost with the string arrangement........but the cello is amazing. If anything, I'd say, just as you mention above, the high strings/violin could come back a pinch.......or not. I'm gonna have a beer and listen again. |
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Sherz
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| slipstream wrote: | | ...I'm gonna have a beer and listen again. |
That's ONE way of fixing a mix I 'spose... Drink 'til it sounds absolutely FANTASTIC!
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Bandersnatch
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Hi Jet,
How about adding backing vocals on the Fumbling, falling down.... part. Also , at the very end instead of a long string note maybe have the strings keep doing their thing and fade out. Anyways, great song.
Cheers
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Hurican
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: |
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I wish I had brought my Audio Technica H/P back from the studio to listen to this. I have to reserve my comments but for one thing. I do agree that it is quite string heavy. You might not even need to do anything but use a stereo width tool. It will do wonders for widening the entire mix, plus thin out the strings just enough for the rest of the mix to shine through.
But as Zap already commented, this goes for me as well. | Quote: | | Better than I can do |
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Hi chasps,
thanks for the reviews and the feedback.
Given that almost all the comments are the same, I'll simply respond
to them in a single message.
Firstly, I am glad people like the song. Thanks for the comments.
I am happy with the mix as is, which is exactly what I wanted.
The strings are meant to sit where they are, it's not supposed to be a "guitar-as-star"
track. Filling most of the soundscape is what I want them to do. From the second verse,
the guitar is almost a shadow, or an outline, with just the occasional note discernible, yes! 
The vocal is never obscured, which is the main instrument (obviously).
I know nothing about orthodox string groupings or arrangements (obvious too!)
but that doesn't worry me at all, as listeners won't care either (apart from Ian! ).
Given that I ended up with (first) two cellos and a single violin, then a double bass and
two more cellos, their placement options were limited. It's interesting that so many
folk want them panned more. They are already at 70% L/R. However, spreading them
out more isn't what I want, either. I reckon they are fine as they are. I also think the
single violin is right, too. I want it to be heard above all the other string parts.
Lenny, I had shaved...but wasn't wearing any pants at the time.
Cheers again!
Jet
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| slipstream wrote: | | Great way to start the day today!! This one will get many plays in my household. And car. And while skiing. Can't wait to get the whole bunch of tunes on a disc. |
Joe,
thanks for those kind words. While skiing? Watch out for that tree, but don't blame it on me.
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| mixup23 wrote: | Fabulous. Great lyrics and presentation.
Your guitar is the hero here. I love the ocassional string noise!!!
The strings provide a nice balance. And your vocals are strong.
Thanks for sharing, and Happy Thanksgiving
Michael |
Hello Michael,
thanks for your review.
If my guitar is in any way the hero,
it is in its unending ability to inspire me.
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| FastnLoose wrote: | Nice. Clever last tune title. Beautiful lyrics.
that's a really nice classical guitar part and well recorded. If I was the guitarist,
once the second verse began I'd be tempted to turn around and shout
"Yo-Yo Ma - ya wanna back off on the big violin a smidge?!"
you might consider bringing those strings back a couple of db, at least at first, because
the fullness of sound and the clarity of the guitar gets lost as soon as those strings come in.: |
Hi Lenny,
thanks for your listen and for the comments.
Yo Yo Ma went away very happy from the session. Wads of cash do that.
I have now put up The Penitent Mix, with the strings down 1.5 dB.
Actually, I think what a lot of people are thinking/hearing is the fact that from verse 2,
it's a different guitar part, with only the bottom three strings in play. That might give the
impression that suddenly everything's been masked, whereas there's almost nothing going on.
I did this months ago, and had myself forgotten all about the two guitar parts.
So, from verse 2, the guitar in fact takes on a percussive, beat-making role, 'coz the strings
alone can't do that.
This was my first project using a Zoom recorder for the guitar.
Thanks for your feedback, again.
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| blueonblue wrote: | excellent lyrics and vocal as usual, you have such a great feel for a song.
btw, beautiful acoustic guitar |
Thanks for your comments. I was very happy with how the words came out.
I am actually surprised that so many listeners think the guitar sounds good.
I thought I'd be crucified over it. 
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ZapAxe wrote: | Nice one Jet ... Very enjoyable to listen to ...several times now
If I was to try and find anything to change at all, I'd say bring the string section level back in the distance a bit, also EQ it a little as to not hog frequecies for the rest of the tune. Is this string section all mono? It would be nice to hear some stereo separation in some of the instruments... Eh, better than I can do mind you |
Hi there Steve!
Thanks for having a listen. I have adjusted the strings in a new mix. The strings are definitely NOT mono,
but I've chosen not to spread them. It's all in a room, not on a stage.
Cheers!
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Sherz wrote: | Another beautiful song Jet! And I know I sound like a stuck record... but once again your lyrics are an inspiration...
And yeah... you've got some challenges with this mix with regard to the the strings as others have mentioned. I like their level relative to the vocal, perhaps a notch lower, but the guitar is really being swamped by them unfortunately. Also, I notice they seemed to be reversed (L <-> R) to what is the usual convention... cellos on the right, violins on the left. I'm sure you'll figure an optimal mix out but I wonder for now if maybe the strings could be spread wider? I've often found I've had to push the panning to extremes with string sections to help keep centre-stage clear, that and some fairly aggressive EQ in the 'business area' of the mix.
Nice! |
Ian,
thanks for the listen and the feedback.
I've tried to address these general concerns you've mentioned in the first reply to Sir Leonard.
Yeah, in reality, there is almost nothing to the guitar after verse 2. The strings aren't actually masking anything.
Thanks for your kind remarks about the song/lyrics. It has struck me that, with this new album, more than ever,
I've somehow moved into multi internal rhyme mode with most lines. Rather than just conventional rhymes
on every other end of line, I'm going for (often) triplets of internal rhymes per couplet. I don't know where
this has come from, it has just evolved. The end result (which I hope is subtle rather than blatant) is a rather
"musical" sound to the lyrics, "poetry", if you like. Well, I hope so anyway.
I thank my father for any gift I might have with words. He was masterful in English, French, Latin and Classical Greek.
In comparison, I'm an idiot.
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FastnLoose
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Pearldivers wrote: | I am happy with the mix as is, which is exactly what I wanted.
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Well, shut my mouth!
At least we now have a clearer understanding of what "Hope you like it" means.
Nobody was asking for 'guitar as star', I just wasn't sure if it should get lost just 45 secs in. I think that's a nice place for
the strings to compliment the sound, but not to dominate the soundscape.
and consider this: If you start digging your heels in, then others are bound to follow suit, and where would this place be without
Ian's snare drums to flog?
This piece could've kept us all busy for a week or so. This new trend could potentially have us all resigned to making feature requests
and fighting it out in the Cubase v Protools war.
...and answering Zapaxe's questions.
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Pearldivers
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Sherz wrote: | | slipstream wrote: | | ...I'm gonna have a beer and listen again. |
That's ONE way of fixing a mix I 'spose... Drink 'til it sounds absolutely FANTASTIC! |
It's the ONLY way to fix a mix. Other than ganja. Which I never touch.  
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| FastnLoose wrote: | | Pearldivers wrote: | I am happy with the mix as is, which is exactly what I wanted.
|
Well, shut my mouth!
At least we now have a clearer understanding of what "Hope you like it" means.
Nobody was asking for 'guitar as star', I just wasn't sure if it should get lost just 45 secs in. I think that's a nice place for
the strings to compliment the sound, but not to dominate the soundscape.
and consider this: If you start digging your heels in, then others are bound to follow suit, and where would this place be without
Ian's snare drums to flog?
This piece could've kept us all busy for a week or so. This new trend could potentially have us all resigned to making feature requests
and fighting it out in the Cubase v Protools war.
...and answering Zapaxe's questions. |
Yeah, sorry to disappoint. My bad. Those ARE bleak scenarios.
Hence The Penitent Mix (if you can read mate!) 
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FastnLoose
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Kindly disregard my previous post. I'd hit the reply button, then had to leave the room for a while, and when I came back
and completed it, I see that you made the individual replies in ahead of me.
I'm explaining it rather than deleting it for entertainment purposes.
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Bandersnatch wrote: | Hi Jet,
How about adding backing vocals on the Fumbling, falling down.... part. Also , at the very end instead of a long string note maybe have the strings keep doing their thing and fade out. Anyways, great song.
Cheers |
Hi Felix,
I had thought about trying harmonies, but maybe it's one of those tunes
where the listener provides their own? Or maybe I'm just lazy.
Thanks! I've tried to fix the current fade...in light of your remark
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| FastnLoose wrote: | Kindly disregard my previous post. I'd hit the reply button, then had to leave the room for a while, and when I came back
and completed it, I see that you made the individual replies in ahead of me.
I'm explaining it rather than deleting it for entertainment purposes. |
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Pearldivers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Hurican wrote: | I wish I had brought my Audio Technica H/P back from the studio to listen to this. I have to reserve my comments but for one thing. I do agree that it is quite string heavy. You might not even need to do anything but use a stereo width tool. It will do wonders for widening the entire mix, plus thin out the strings just enough for the rest of the mix to shine through.
But as Zap already commented, this goes for me as well. | Quote: | | Better than I can do |
|
Thanks for the review. I have indeed put up a new mix with the strings down.
Cheers!
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Pearldivers
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phild05
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hiya Jet. Really nice geetaring
Yeah, I reckon you've got most of the levels sorted on this one. Did you A/B with anything for this song? Just wondered.
I found the leccy bass to be a tad too loud albeit it only appears briefly. Might wanna check that in a day or so............
Otherwise, poifect. A great end to the album
Cheers
Sir Phil
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ZapAxe
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Pretty soon Jet your song will be exactly the way 'WE' want it
Had another listen
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