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FunkyDrummer
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 Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:13 pm Post subject: [BUG?] Scissors won't cut MIDI in multi selection |
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When i select a group of MIDI notes, and then attempt to cut them all with the scissors tool, the cut will not succeed if one of the selected notes begins exactly at the position I am cutting !!!
This bug also happens when trying to cut multiple audio events an audio track, or multiple midi parts on a midi track
(I made another post about these two)
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JHP
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Hi FunkyDrummer,
| Quote: | | When i select a group of MIDI notes, and then attempt to cut them all with the scissors tool, the cut will not succeed if one of the selected notes begins exactly at the position I am cutting !!! |
 Hmmm...
To me it seems that the cut does not succeed because one is not actually cutting. One is just clicking on a cut that has already been made or clicking right before an event but not actually on it.
You can skip to different notes with the keys "b" and "n".
You then can cut multiple selections with "Alt+X".
If you're not used to using these keys, they are one of my most used and I can only recommend it. 
What's your opinion on my workflow suggestion regarding b, n and Alt+X?
What's your opinion on my assumption regarding the Cubase behavior?
Do you agree that this is not bug but more or less foreseeable and justifiable behavior?
Cubase Rulez,
Gr,
JHP
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FunkyDrummer
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reply.
I agree that because one note begins at the cut point, then that should not be cut. That wouldn't make sense!
However, the other notes in the selection should still get cut, if it is actually sensible to do so (ie the cut point is within the note start and end point)
This exact behaviour is already there in Cubase, in situations where the cut point DOES NOT coinincide with any note start points:
For example, select two sequential (ie non overlapping) MIDI notes then make a cut in the first one.
Result: The first note gets cut, and the second one is left uncut! This is entirely logical and expected - the second note could never be cut because it started AFTER the cut point, so Cubase leaves it alone and cuts what it can.
This used to work fine in SX3, btw!
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FunkyDrummer
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| JHP wrote: | Hi FunkyDrummer,
| Quote: | | When i select a group of MIDI notes, and then attempt to cut them all with the scissors tool, the cut will not succeed if one of the selected notes begins exactly at the position I am cutting !!! |
Hmmm...
To me it seems that the cut does not succeed because one is not actually cutting. One is just clicking on a cut that has already been made or clicking right before an event but not actually on it.
JHP |
Just re-read this.
I am am cutting one of the longer notes in the middle. I am definitely clicking well within the start and end points of the note. There is another note (at a different pitch to where i'm clicking) in the selection group that happens to start at the same position as the proposed cut.
The result is that no notes are cut !
expected result: all the notes that could be cut, should be cut ! Any ones out of range should be left alone.
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PMF1
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Hi
I dont know if this is the same problem you're experiencing.
see
http://www.cubase.de/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=142465&highlight=
In any case I installed 5.5.2 about a week ago and since then I havent had any cutting problems anymore.
Regards
PMF1
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JHP
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| FunkyDrummer wrote: | | JHP wrote: | Hi FunkyDrummer,
| Quote: | | When i select a group of MIDI notes, and then attempt to cut them all with the scissors tool, the cut will not succeed if one of the selected notes begins exactly at the position I am cutting !!! |
Hmmm...
To me it seems that the cut does not succeed because one is not actually cutting. One is just clicking on a cut that has already been made or clicking right before an event but not actually on it.
JHP |
Just re-read this.
I am am cutting one of the longer notes in the middle. I am definitely clicking well within the start and end points of the note. There is another note (at a different pitch to where i'm clicking) in the selection group that happens to start at the same position as the proposed cut.
The result is that no notes are cut !
expected result: all the notes that could be cut, should be cut ! Any ones out of range should be left alone. |
Hi FunkyDrummer,
I'm using Cubase 5.5.2 and I can't reproduce what you describe over here. You explaination of the problem was quite clear.
Example:
I have two notes, a C2 and a E2 starting at measure 2.
A long G2 note goes from measure 1 all the way to measure 4.
I now select all the three notes and cut the long note G2 precisely at measure 2 where C2 and E2 start.
It works as expected.
Could it be that you have two MIDI Events on top of eachother and that you have the "Edit active part only" button on in the Key Editor?
Can anybody else confirm the problem or give any more repro directions?
Cubase Rocks!
Gr,
JHP
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FunkyDrummer
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm it gets weirder.
I think it has something to do with which the order the notes are selected, under the selection rectangle AND which notes were already selected,
try this: I assume long G note is on top, then E and C underneath....
1) deselect all notes by clicking on midi editor background
2) select the bottom short note (the C)
3) now, without deselecting anything, select all 3 notes with the mouse by dragging a rectangle from TOP TO BOTTOM (so the long G is the first to be passed over by the mouse)
4) Now, try to cut the long G note at the C/E start position. This fails every time on my system.
PS I am on 5.52 now, the problem is still there.
.
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Bobadabob
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm...strange indeed.. I just tried to experiment and I can reproduce this but not as you describe FD...
I create my three notes (one by one, top to bottom); the last note (C) is highlighted already at this point. Switching from pencil to the arrow tool (right-click tool box) I drag a rubber-band over all three notes (top to bottom). Then, selecting the scissors tool, I try to cut the long note (G) at the position (time) where the other two start. Nothing happens..!!
If however I deselect all after I first create my notes, then select the C note, then rubber-band and cut on the G note, it works here - every time...
Wish I could record a little screen vid for you all; how do you guys do it...? What do you use...?
(Oh, forget it - I've nowhere to post it up anyway...! Maybe the new forums coming next wednesday will allow..?)
Bob
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FunkyDrummer
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobadabob wrote: | Hmm...strange indeed.. I just tried to experiment and I can reproduce this but not as you describe FD...
I create my three notes (one by one, top to bottom); the last note (C) is highlighted already at this point. Switching from pencil to the arrow tool (right-click tool box) I drag a rubber-band over all three notes (top to bottom). Then, selecting the scissors tool, I try to cut the long note (G) at the position (time) where the other two start. Nothing happens..!!
If however I deselect all after I first create my noes, then select the C note, then rubber-band and cut on the G note, it works here - every time...
Bob |
Yes it seems to behave differently, in your case
However, I am not switching tools like you are
I have the scissors selected all the time, and I am selecting notes by dragging with the scissors on the background
It's crazy, it doesn;t do it every time, and sometimes repeatedly clicking on the same spot 5or 6 times will make the cut work.
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Bobadabob
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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The plot thickens - i can reproduce this, doing exactly as you describe FD..!! Though, I've been scratching my head, as I've tried a few times now and it does seem a bit hit and miss when it happens - but, importantly it does happen...!
Bob
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Bobadabob
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| FunkyDrummer wrote: | | and sometimes repeatedly clicking on the same spot 5or 6 times will make the cut work. |
YES...!! I've seen that too... Then, the next time, I've tried clicking tons and tons and it won't do anything... weird...
Bob
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FunkyDrummer
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hooray I'm not going mad (well, not totally)!
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royce
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| JHP wrote: | Could it be that you have two MIDI Events on top of eachother and that you have the "Edit active part only" button on in the Key Editor?
Can anybody else confirm the problem or give any more repro directions?
Cubase Rocks!
Gr,
JHP |
Hi Jan
I think that is part of the problem, that "Edit active part" must be enabled in order to select individual notes, even when those notes have no notes underneath. |
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FunkyDrummer
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| royce wrote: | | JHP wrote: | Could it be that you have two MIDI Events on top of eachother and that you have the "Edit active part only" button on in the Key Editor?
Can anybody else confirm the problem or give any more repro directions?
Cubase Rocks!
Gr,
JHP |
Hi Jan
I think that is part of the problem, that "Edit active part" must be enabled in order to select individual notes, even when those notes have no notes underneath. |
I am editing only one MIDI part , not multiple parts
Problem is same whether "edit active part" is selected or not
There are no notes behind the 3 test notes I am drawing
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Suprawill1
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't tried this in the midi editor but had the same experience with audio parts on the project page. I could have 4 tracks with an audio part on each. Let's say they all go from bar 1 to bar 4. The first audio part (track 1) is already cut at 2.1.3.1. I lasso all 4 audio parts so I can use the 1st cut as a guide line for them all to be cut. I put the scissors directly on the cut position (on any of the parts) and try to cut but won't succeed. Again, sometimes after repeating I may be able to cut them but sometimes not. I feel this is the same problem FD is speaking of. This also holds true if these audio parts are stacked on one track, which I also do when recording multiple takes of one segment. I've posted this in another thread a while back but got no substantial feedback.
I can't remember if this glitch started after CS4 or after the 1st update of CS5. This used to work flawlessly.
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GargoyleStudio
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Yep, I noticed this problem the other day with multiple audio parts, thought it was just me. Seems to be random here but generally it doesn't cut as I expect it to. Not been using midi so much so I haven't noticed it for that.
Mike. |
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royce
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| FunkyDrummer wrote: | I am editing only one MIDI part , not multiple parts
Problem is same whether "edit active part" is selected or not
There are no notes behind the 3 test notes I am drawing |
I believe the main problem is one of tools in use, in that depending on which tool you use to select a bunch of notes determines how they may be dealt with later on. |
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JHP
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| FunkyDrummer wrote: | Hmm it gets weirder.
I think it has something to do with which the order the notes are selected, under the selection rectangle AND which notes were already selected,
try this: I assume long G note is on top, then E and C underneath....
1) deselect all notes by clicking on midi editor background
2) select the bottom short note (the C)
3) now, without deselecting anything, select all 3 notes with the mouse by dragging a rectangle from TOP TO BOTTOM (so the long G is the first to be passed over by the mouse)
4) Now, try to cut the long G note at the C/E start position. This fails every time on my system.
PS I am on 5.52 now, the problem is still there.
. |
I still can't reproduce this.
Could you send me the problematic *.cpr file to info(at)Steinberg(dot)de?
Could you post a gif or a video of the problem?
Could anyone post a more precise repro?
Cubase Rocks!!!
Gr,
JHP
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Bobadabob
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hi JHP - a little more news in FD's absence...
From my view, its not the *.cpr file that's important - anything will do; I tried from a new empty project, one midi track, one (short) midi event...
This is still reproducible here and may depend on the position of the scissor icon itself, when you attempt the cut...
(I know it would help tremendously, but I don't know how to make (screen) videos, and haven't anywhere to post them up anyway, sorry... BTW, will the new forum accept short vids as uploads/attachments..? just curious...)
Have the snap enabled to say a quarter note.
The long (G) note starts at bar 3 and the other two below (E and C) both start at bar 4.
With the notes selected and using the Scissor tool, hover over the long (G) note near to bar line 4 and you will see the cursor 'snaps' to that point.
Now, you can still move the actual scissors icon, a little to the left or right of course with the cut point remaining at the bar 4 downbeat. What I've found, is that if the scissor icon itself is to the right a little and then I try performing the cut, it fails; moving slightly to the left of the bar line and the cut works.... If I'm bang on the beat with the scissor icon, it works... weird.
I have tried trashing prefs and repeating. No change.
HTH,
Bob 
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FunkyDrummer
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| JHP wrote: | | FunkyDrummer wrote: | Hmm it gets weirder.
I think it has something to do with which the order the notes are selected, under the selection rectangle AND which notes were already selected,
try this: I assume long G note is on top, then E and C underneath....
1) deselect all notes by clicking on midi editor background
2) select the bottom short note (the C)
3) now, without deselecting anything, select all 3 notes with the mouse by dragging a rectangle from TOP TO BOTTOM (so the long G is the first to be passed over by the mouse)
4) Now, try to cut the long G note at the C/E start position. This fails every time on my system.
PS I am on 5.52 now, the problem is still there.
. |
I still can't reproduce this.
Could you send me the problematic *.cpr file to info(at)Steinberg(dot)de?
Could you post a gif or a video of the problem?
Could anyone post a more precise repro?
Cubase Rocks!!!
Gr,
JHP |
JHP
Thanks for your continued support
the .cpr is a totally empty project, I add a midi track , draw a midi event then draw the 3 test notes. I will send you it anyway.
In my repro above , step 4 says the "this fails every time".
Actually it does work occasionally, maybe once twice in a row, but then then not at all for six or seven tries... Apologies for the inacaccuracy
so in trying to repro, please keep "undo" ing and reselecting the notes in different orders with the lasso...
it definitely seems there is an element of "randomness" to this problem.
however, the problem also happens with midi and audio events, and all three problems may be linked, via the code that does object selection / lassoing
Here is my post about that problem... the repro DOES fail every time on my system, it may be a useful place to look... (?)
http://cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=140255
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JHP
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| FunkyDrummer wrote: | | JHP wrote: | | FunkyDrummer wrote: | Hmm it gets weirder.
I think it has something to do with which the order the notes are selected, under the selection rectangle AND which notes were already selected,
try this: I assume long G note is on top, then E and C underneath....
1) deselect all notes by clicking on midi editor background
2) select the bottom short note (the C)
3) now, without deselecting anything, select all 3 notes with the mouse by dragging a rectangle from TOP TO BOTTOM (so the long G is the first to be passed over by the mouse)
4) Now, try to cut the long G note at the C/E start position. This fails every time on my system.
PS I am on 5.52 now, the problem is still there.
. |
I still can't reproduce this.
Could you send me the problematic *.cpr file to info(at)Steinberg(dot)de?
Could you post a gif or a video of the problem?
Could anyone post a more precise repro?
Cubase Rocks!!!
Gr,
JHP |
JHP
Thanks for your continued support
the .cpr is a totally empty project, I add a midi track , draw a midi event then draw the 3 test notes. I will send you it anyway.
In my repro above , step 4 says the "this fails every time".
Actually it does work occasionally, maybe once twice in a row, but then then not at all for six or seven tries... Apologies for the inacaccuracy
so in trying to repro, please keep "undo" ing and reselecting the notes in different orders with the lasso...
it definitely seems there is an element of "randomness" to this problem.
however, the problem also happens with midi and audio events, and all three problems may be linked, via the code that does object selection / lassoing
Here is my post about that problem... the repro DOES fail every time on my system, it may be a useful place to look... (?)
http://cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=140255 |
I have managed to reproduce the issue now. The issue seems to appear when you have snap turned on and cut on the long note slightly to the right of the shorter notes start point above of it.
If you cut slightly to the left of the short notes start point it should work.
A classical bug report with a repro is a little bit inapropriate because such a repro might be missing some details and will get quite unreliable in actually presenting the problem.
Instead I will write a general report to the respective departments and demonstrate the problem to them.
I would like to thank you for your report and all other Cubase users that helped to bring the issue forward.
Cubase Rocks,
Gr,
JHP
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Bobadabob
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Great..! I was some help then..?
http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=1040520#1040520
Just to be clear, its not the cut-point itself (as its 'snapped' in the right place), but the position of the actual scissor icon that may be the cause...? Worth trying with Audio tracks too, like GargoyleStudio and Suprawill1 have found...
Cheers,
Bob
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FunkyDrummer
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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aha!
Excellent result ! <applause>
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JHP
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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No, you still are by being a member of this community.
Thanks!
| Bobadabob wrote: | | Just to be clear, its not the cut-point itself (as its 'snapped' in the right place), but the position of the actual scissor icon that may be the cause...? Worth trying with Audio tracks too, like GargoyleStudio and Suprawill1 have found... |
These occurrences will receive attention as well.
Indeed it is the same regarding the position of the scissor icon with Midi and Audio Events that are on top of or overlapping eachother.
Thanks to all of you!!!
Cubase Rocks,
Gr,
JHP
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Suprawill1
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience with cutting audio, I've had this problem occur with the snap off and the scissors icon dead on the intended position. The fact that it won't cut at all or may cut after several tries tells me that there's definitely a glitch going on. Those several cutting attempts were made without moving the icon at all. This is something that didn't occur at all in a couple past versions so I am confident to say that it is a forward version glitch. Thanks for listening and attending to our observations.
Will
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