Laptop DAW help needed

[Chris Beuermann]

Hello,

We want to make a general "Laptop DAW" knowledge article. The amount of questions here in the forums and at our support department regarding laptops is getting higher and higher. So we thought a knowledge base article could answer allot of questions and a little help.

Regarding the technical questions and some other aspects we have help from one of the world leading laptop manufactures. But we also need to know what your questions are and what kind of information you need so we can answer those questions in our article.

Please write them down here. Perhaps you can give a little insight "why" this kind of information is important for you, or what do you wanna know about laptops but you could not find on the internet. Perhaps you also have some other questions --> write them down.

Please no discussions here !! It is important for us to know the questions and not the discussions.

A big thanks allready,

Chris

List till so far:

1. Firewire Chipset
2. Size of Display
3. HDD speed
4. HDD volume
5. What kind of display
6. How about some information regarding external HDD's ?
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[Nate Wade]

A couple of important points are hard drive RPM and Firewire Chipset.

[Chris Beuermann]

Hello Nate,

[Nate Wade]

Hello Chris,

Sorry if I read your post wrong, but I thought you were asking for input on a Knowledge Base article. I referenced the above items as they are one of the biggest sources of issues where people wonder why their brand new system doesn't work as expected.

Hard drive RPM is important in that it affects the number of tracks you can record at once. A lot of lappy's have 5,400 RPM drives. 7,200 is better for multi-tracking.

With regards to Firewire chipsets, most device mfg.'s want a Texas Instrument set because the drivers are solid. I notice from reading a lot of posts over the years that Texas Inst. isn't the default brand installed.

If it is a guide to what to look for in a laptop, USB ports are another item. Since a DAW uses many peripherals, the more USB ports, the better.

With regard to peripherals, something mentioning using the external power adapters for devices and not letting them be powered by Firewire or USB ports to lessen the strain on the power supply is a good idea.

If this isn't what you're looking for, feel free to delete it so it doesn't cloud the issue.

[Paul Bryce]

Hi Chris

To expand on Nate's question without turning it into a discussion, is 7200 RPM hard drives the minimum requirement for a Laptop, as opposed to the regular 5400 drives commonly installed in them.

What are the recommended Firewire chipsets known to work well with Laptops, ie: Texas Instruments or Agere ?

Paul.

EDIT: I see Nate replied as I was posting my message, so feel free to delete mine if you want.
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House Of Trees Music Productions.

[fender_rhodes]

Hi,

I'm using an Acer Laptop Travelmate 7720G purchased Sept. 2007. But I couldn't get it to work with any firewire-interface because of ASIO drop outs when changing between different windows in Cubase. So I changed to an PCMCIA Interface (RME) and everything works fine. The support of one of the firewire-interfaces said the reason why it doesn't work could be a driver conflict between graphic board (ATI Radeon 2600) and firewire chipset (TI). I don't know whether this is true but if I had known about problems with Laptop-graphic and firewire before I would have saved a lot of trouble.
Perhaps you can give some light in the darkness of firewire and how to get it work.

Best regards
Thilo
_________________
Acer Travelmate 7720G, Intel T7700 2x2.4GHz, 4 Gb RAM, RME Multiface II, Vista Home Premium (32bit+64bit), Cubase 5 , WaveLab 6.1 Studio, Halion3, Groove Agent 3, Virtual Bassist, HSO, VG2; TG3; JABB

[Troubadix]

Hello Chris & Steinberg,

this is a nice idea.


In my opinion the decison for a laptop can be divided into two main parts:

1. Personal preferences like...
...Display size?
...is a glare display type a problem?
...integrated or external numeric key block?
...weight?
...and so on...


2.
When you've found a couple of laptops which are matching your personal preferences then the important
questions of the technical requirements are left. Since a laptop is completely assembled when you buy
it the combinations of the components are mostly (always?) a compromise.

So I would like to see a kind of ranking of components by importance in that article.

Something that can be a decision guidance to find the best of two or more laptops. For (an imaginary) example:

Laptop A: Core 2 Duo T7250 2.0 GHz ? MB L2 / 2x2G RAM / 7200 rpm HDD /...etc...
Laptop B: Core 2 Duo T9300 2.5GHz 6 MB L2 / 2G+1G=3G RAM / 5400 rpm HDD /....etc...

Something that helps to decide and recognize which of the component-combinations of A & B makes A or B the better lap-DAW.

I don't know if it's possible to find the ultimate lap-DAW-formula - probably not, but maybe something similar.

Cheers,

T.
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[devrimyoldas]

hi, I think I am one of those rare ones here in this forum who uses the laptop for manily classical or live recordings. I use a very simple sound card and a akg c1000s mic. soo far I've been ok with the core 2 santarosa and 3 gb of ram, but I am realy starting to feel the need of a good DSP(probably a UAD expresscard one...soo any advice would be great). To be completely honest I had no problems other than the common ones and my personal newbyness. I think cubase is really rocksolid on most laptops. I think my question or discussion point would be about DSP issues for live recording artists on laptop.





I know it may sound very superficial to the most : Cant we have a better looking and user friendly(like sibelius) score editor.
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I WILL LEARN CS4...does it sound keen enough?

[Early21st]

I'm using a laptop now (XP Pro). It would have been nice to get recommendations on connections. I had read beforehand that most laptops that come with firewire won't work well with music production. Lots of forum entries about how you have to get a TI chipset in your firewire interface. So I purposefully bought a laptop without firewire and am using an Express card that has the TI chipset. I was also worried about IRQ conflicts and was wondering if USB interfaces would work well. In the end, I took a chance, and fortunately, it's working. I still wonder if I have given up anything in performance and future expansion, but the system seems to fly.
Lenovo T61, Intel Core 2 Duo (Penryn) 2.5Ghz, 160gb 7200rpm Hitachi disc drive, 2GB memory, WinXP SP2, Motu 8pre, ADS Pyro 2 port Firewire Express Card
_________________
Cubase Studio 4.5.2, Thinkpad T61 Laptop, 4G RAM, WinXP SP2, 160GB hard drive, 250GB hard drive, Steinberg MR816CSX, ADS Pyro firewire interface

[jcschild]

most of your questions can be answered here

http://www.adkproaudio.com/compete.cfm#laptop

the comparison could be used for any Ricoh, ENE, Agere, O2R (Orange Micro) chipset laden laptop.

this is for Firewire interfaces, USB will work on most anything.

TI firewire chipset is a must with any new dual core with Express slot. (assuming Intel processors)
AMD laptops will work with Via firewire, but are pathetically slower than intel.

aside from that the obvious 7200 RPM HDD and as much CPU and Ram as you can afford.

other things to consider.

1) eSata external drives via an Express card to eSata offer the same performance (80+ meg/s thruput) as a desktop compared to a laptops internal of about 50+

2) a single internal drive (7200) will do over 40 tracks of 48k with effects (properly used) and 24 of 96K straight recording (as you add effects to this the need for external drives become evident.)

3) a laptop can be a desktop replacement for all but the most heavy users (even UAD can be used in various ways)
with the eSata option you can have 2 external drives, 1 for recording the other for samples
todays laptop processors are equal GHz wise to their desktop cousins. EG: a dual core 2.4G laptop will be as fast as a dual core 2.4G desktop processor.

the only area where a laptop still falls short is in memory bandwidth. aprox 25% reduction. (this would only effect heavy sample users)

3B) there is a 17" laptop that takes quad core desktop processors and 3 internal HDDs, making it a real desktop replacement.
however Quad core laptop processors will be released in Q3 this yr. making them run even cooler.

4) very few name brands have TI chipset.

Apple (again finally)
HP/Compaq higher end biz laptops
Toshiba but you must go to the store to verify as many do not have them, and it can happen within the same model (not unlike what happened to Apple)
Clevo 17" models only

5) only 1 "pro audio dealer" in the US (in all farness had to add this.. PC audio labs 17" models only is the exception)
sells TI chipset laptops can you guess who?
all the others are ricoh laden and try to fool you with adding an Express card with TI chipset so they can claim TI chipset.

adding a Ti based Express card to an already bad chipset at best allows the interface to work but not at low latency.
_________________
Scott
ADK
home of the "Kentucky Fried DAW"

[Early21st]

Thanks, Scott. I would say it is still confusing whether or not I should make some adjustments to ensure that the FireWire Express card does have IRQ conflicts.
_________________
Cubase Studio 4.5.2, Thinkpad T61 Laptop, 4G RAM, WinXP SP2, 160GB hard drive, 250GB hard drive, Steinberg MR816CSX, ADS Pyro firewire interface

[devrimyoldas]

UAD expender extreme or T.C powercore x8,,,,,would anyone have experience on these DSP solutions. also could somebody compare them please. I am going to buy one of these soo I would ike to know which one is better before its too late.

Thanks,
_________________
VAIO VGN FZ21M. 2 Ghz core duo. 3GB Ram..CUBASE STUDIO 4 version 4.5.2.....Win 7 32 bit ... SIBELIUS 4,6 ....M-AUDIO FIREWIRE SOLO....akg c1000s, Shure pg81-m-audio studiopro 3.Steinberg Grand 2.
I WILL LEARN CS4...does it sound keen enough?

[s_j_e]

How to eliminate ground loops. Even though I've tried a lot of things suggested here and in other forums, the only way to get my laptop to play back (via Echo Indigo DJ) through a PA without ground loop buzz is to switch off the external power and run it from the battery. Which is OK for as long as the battery lasts but not forever!
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Steve

Desktop: SX 3.1.0.944, WinXP Home SP3, Q6600 EP35-DS3P 4GB, Cosmos case, 2xGeForce 8400, 3x20" LCD, Tascam US-428, ART SLA-1, Blueroom Minipods. Laptop: SX 3.1.0.944, WinXP Home SP2, Dell 6000 PM 2.0 512 DDR2, Echo Indigo DJ. Posts: +400

[Troubadix]

[Mandobilly64]

Just to let you guys know, I am running a P4 2.8 Ghz laptop for remote recordings with SX3 and it's hard drive is only 5400 RPM's.
I have successfully recorded as many as 20 tracks at a time for up to 3 hours straight at shows via Firewire with a MOTU 828 MkII as the main interface. I do use an external USB 2.0 hard drive to store the files though, which is running at 7200 RPM's.
The main thing is that the slower hard drive will get bogged down rather quickly when mixing/processing.
So I normally dump the files to my desktop for mixing, as it's a little more powerful machine.

Peace,
Billy
_________________
3400+ 64bit 200GB HD OS, 160 GB HD Storage + 500 GB External HD, 2GB Ram, Cubase 3.1.1, Wavelab 6, MOTU 828mk3, Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 i/o, Octopre, 2.8 GHZ Laptop w/1280 MB Ram, Dynaudio BM5A, Mackie Big Knob, Tranzport

[Neil Wilkes]

I would like to revert to the FireWire chipset question again.
I have a Toshiba Satellite system, with a Dual Core 1.66 CPU, 2Gb RAM & a 512Mb Nvidia graphics chip.
I'm running it with Nuendo 3.2.1 & 4.1.3 with no real issues at all via a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26.
The problem - and I do not know whose problem is it - is that the intrerface will only work with the 4-pin FW port that is built into the Toshiba.
Texas Instruments, VIA (Belkin & others) all fail to work if using a CardBus or PCIe type card FW adapter.
It keeps losing connection to the laptop.
Yet using the built-in interface it is flawless.
Why?
It's an irritation, and I have to gaffer tape the lead into the side of the unit.
Awkward to put it mildly. I would much rather it actually worked with the expansion card, but have no idea why it is not.
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Nuendo 3, 4 & 5, Surround Editions, DTS/DD Encoders, WaveLab 5, 6 & 7, Sonic Scenarist SD & DVD-Audio Creator, DTS-HD MAS, RME HDSP9652 & 3 ADI-8 DS, WK Audio ID, ASUS Commando, Q6700CPU, 2Gb RAM, SCSI subsystem, 5 Adam A7 monitors etc.

[shortlived]

I am no expert but I think most Toshs are using TI only for 4-pin firewire port and the Cardbus is controlled by O2Micro chip. I am afraid even the TI based firewire adapter won't help. Better try before you buy it.

[shortlived]

[Troubadix]

[nickstagg]

There is a lot of talk here about firewire for laptops...

Note for all...
If you are using the firewire interface then the microsoft xp service pack 2 update has a serious affect on the performance.

basically.... this is from the focusrite web site.

Installation and connection problems, and clicks and pops with Windows XP Service Pack 2
There is a IEEE 1394 (firewire) driver patch available for Windows XP SP2. Even if you have automatic updates turned on, you will still need to manually download and intall the update
Please go to www.microsoft.com and search for "SP2 1394". The top search result links to an article explaining that some firewire 400 devices might not perform as expected without the required update.
CAUSE
This problem occurs if you connect a 1394a or 1394b FireWire device to a 1394b port. This problem occurs because Windows XP SP2 changes 1394b ports to S100 speed when you upgrade-

if i understand this correctly the port should be S400 so that´s a potential 75% loss in data transfer

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222 this is the web link.
_________________
"Only become a musician if there is absolutely no other way you can make a living." Kirke Mecham

sx3.1.latest version, reason 2.5, p4 lap top and desk top, some hard drives, focusrite saffire pro26 and motu 2408 audio things, maudio midi keyboard, various auturia,NI,korg,novation vst, a few old keyboards and samplers, lots of outboard fx, some drums, bass ,gtr, o2r mixer ,various speakers and 2 ears.

[jcschild]

HI,
thats not the issue with RICOH etc laden laptops...
as a system builder dont you think i am full aware of the hotfix!
_________________
Scott
ADK
home of the "Kentucky Fried DAW"

[shortlived]

is this fw hotfix still needed if I update to xp pro SP3?

[AndrewW]

Well,
I use Macbook Pro, 15.4 inch screen, 2.6ghz, 4gigs of RAM, 250gig 5400rpm hard drive.
Firewire Chipset by TI.

I've recorded 8 tracks at 32bit, 96khz with no sweat one of those times.
Also, for running samples I use an express card with external SATA ports and use Seagate Freeagent Pro 750gig hard drives. They run almost silently. A very nice combination.

My primary, Mac partition is 200 gigs, as well as Windows XPsp2 partition is 50gigs.

I'm very happy with this system. The only thing I wish it had is a numeric keypad.
_________________
Quad-core MacPro, MacBookPro, Cubase 5, Logic Pro, MOTU 896mk3, M-audio Firewire 1814, Apogee Rosetta 800, all kinds of VST and VSTi's.

[Hell Yeh]

I think 2 other key items to know are 1) motherboard chipset and 2) integrated/dedicated graphics memory. Like desktop computers, the combination of the processor and chipset is crucial to knowing how well the laptop is going to perform under the amount of stress Cubase and various plug-ins can put on the computer (i.e., a Core 2 Duo processor will obviously run much better on a Intel chipset than on an nVidia chipset). And integrated graphics memory (aka shared graphics memory) has always been known to cause problems so knowing whether or not a laptop has this is also very important in choosing a laptop that will be good for not just Cubase, but audio production in general.
_________________
Cubase 5.5 :: Ableton Live 7.0.18 :: Pro Tools M-Powered 8.0.3cs2
Windows XP Home SP3 :: Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R :: Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz :: 4GB DDR2-800
Mac OS X Leopard 10.6.4 :: Macbook Pro 2.16GHz :: 3GB DDR2-667
Access Virus TI Polar :: M-Audio Profire 2626 :: UAD-2 Duo :: UAD-1

[mcj]

I got a HP Pavilion dv9870eb, came with VISTA home wich did run ok, but I installed XP64...disabled everything I don't need.

Intel Chipset ICH8
2.50 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9300 6 MB Level 2 cache
17" WXGA+ High Definition BrightView Widescreen (1440 x 900)
4096 MB (2 x 2048 MB)
500 GB (2 x 250 GB) (5400) Hitachi
NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GS Up to 1791 MB (512 MB dedicated)
onboard Ricoh FW Chip

Cubase runs perfectly on this machine and so is my Yamaha mLAN i88x wich was someting I was hoping for

I'm very happy with this notebook

[Dr COMP]

Why is it that inspite of having an almost similar configuration spec, the MacBookPro is supposed to be better in performance as compared to the rest like Dell,Sony,HP,Toshiba etc? ?
I`m asking coz I intend to go in for mobility due to workflow compulsions and am a bit wavery in
deciding the appropriate platform

DR COMP
_________________
1.C5.5.2, , MBox2-mini,
2.MacBookPro 15' '2.53Ghz.

[Dr COMP]

Hello Chris, I was expecting some input from you at least
Regards
DR COMP
_________________
1.C5.5.2, , MBox2-mini,
2.MacBookPro 15' '2.53Ghz.

[Dr COMP]

[quote="Chris Beuermann"]Hello,

what do you wanna know about laptops but you could not find on the internet. Perhaps you also have some other questions --> write them down.

Hey, but that`s what I did and am still waiting for some kind of info from `here`
DR COMP
_________________
1.C5.5.2, , MBox2-mini,
2.MacBookPro 15' '2.53Ghz.

[Anamnesia]

[JiovanniBenussi]

Hi. In addition to the problems I have explained here: http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=27
I believe I have too encountered this problem... I own a several DAW's, however my Gateway FX series P7805u exhibits this.
If I unplug it and have it run on the battery, it is fine.

However in addition to this, my Yamaha Motif XS7 also causes this ground loop when I used my MI4 -usb 1.1 audio interface.

I am using Vista 64bit.