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ts-12
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 Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Beuermann wrote: | Certain features wanted by some users are not part of Cubase 5. Not that we thought: "we do not need them", but it is simply not possible to program everything at the same time. When we would have a Cubase release with "everything", then there would be no Cubase release the next 10 years 
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that is true for bussinesses.
even thou people that make music see this from a different perspective, they or We are thinking about smooth and enjoyable music production.
I think Steinberg will always find a way to add new Plug-ins or features.
But Having at least 90% STABLE, ISUUE-FREE, BUG-FREE sequencer is very important for people in music production industry.
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Chris Beuermann
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faun2500
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Tones2 wrote: | The point is that we can all get any 3rd party plug-in we need that can do much better what Steinberg includes as plug-ins. What we CAN'T get from 3rd parties is CORE FUNCTION enhancements. This should be the focus of Cubase development. There's have been things requested for years and years that STILL have not been implemented.
Tony |
Thats it init. We don't need these new toys. We need bug fixes. Autiomation to work, crashes to stop. THEN make some new toys for the kids.
hahaha
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LSD-Studio
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Beuermann wrote: | Hello TS12,
| Quote: | even thou people that make music see this from a different perspective, they or We are thinking about smooth and enjoyable music production.
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We see that also. Most of the people who are working at Steinberg are musicians, and please do not forget we have very close contacts within the music/film industry. But unfortionally it is not possible to fullfill every user his needs and wishes.
Gr,
Chris |
I can understand that.
what's way more difficult to understand for me though is that exciting new features are being developed (and that's cool) while features that are implemented in most other DAWs (and have been for YEARS) are still missing/being ignored.
Beat Detective is just a good example.
I really like Cubase and am still doing more work on Cubase than on PT, but BD is not really a new exotic thing or anything, why not trying to keep up with the professional standard for editing before lots of new (and probably good) vsti are being developed?
I think first of all producers/Engineers need to work, there are some standard features they need to compete with todays business (for example fast and effective drumediting) before they start thinking about yet another "new" vsti.
I know that not everyone is sharing my opinion on this topic, but as a cubase-fan it's sad to see that Steinberg doesn't do much to keep up with todays most used DAW and falls behind more and more.
sidechaining, editing...all this stuff is important for audioproduction, yet Cubase is always the last DAW to implement stuff like that....but we've got a new synthesizer 
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| dada wrote: |
Sadly, the focus has narrowed and shifted.
Steinberg has obviously decided, to leave studio owners and soundengineers behind.
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Chris Beuermann
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Hello LSD,
Many of the Producers using Cubase/Nuendo. I believe last summer more then 60 procent of the music that was in the "top 40" in the USA was made with our hosts.
Please do not forget who started 25 years ago, and who has copied features from who 
| Quote: | I think first of all producers/Engineers need to work, there are some standard features they need to compete with todays business (for example fast and effective drumediting) before they start thinking about yet another "new" vsti.
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Programming a VST is not the same then "just program" multi lane editing. But more inportant: the decisions we make are very carefull made. Cubase.net is not the only place where we get our information about what is needed. The "pro" market is also very important for us regarding needs for features and workflow anhancements. But it is impossible to please everybody at the same time.
Is Steinberg getting behind ? No, when I look here the posts, then Multilane editing and Multi out on Instrument Tracks are beeing missed. Will Steinberg have "ground braking" new stuff in the future ? Yes we will.
Gr,
Chris
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LSD-Studio
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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well, you're right about the stacked lanes, it's the exact reason why I'm working primarily in Cubase, loving it
The main reason I'm having PT installed is just to be compatible with other studios, (I'm not talking about creating beats and scores etc but about recording, editing and mixing audio).
And no matter who started way back it's a fact that rock oriented musicstudios are mainly using PT.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying PT is better, I'm a die hard cubase fan and often get into arguments about that with partners/colleagues from America, Labels DEMANDING PT (sad fact) etc.
I'm just complaining that although I prefer the workflow of cubase by far over the one in PT I'll have to make the switch, or at least use both DAWs just to be able to use features that are and have been standard in audioengineering (sidechain etc) for years. I just wish you would include these by now old and very common things before we get the next "new" plugin.
I really think the pitch-correction and Convolution Reverb is a great thing (nothing to get moist over though, cause the other DAWs have convolution plugins since...dunno, forever), but definitely a step in the right direction.
Still, it's really hard for me to believe that something like Beat Detective is not regarded "necessairy" by steinberg and seems to be less important than x new vsti....
shows me where the priorities of Cubase seems to be, and I fear it's more midi than audio...the reason I didn't use Logic.
that's not really a valid complaint, cause I know there are tons of people who love cubase exactly for that, use it to create beats, write songs etc, cool stuff, but I feel as an engineer that works with real band recordings I'm not the target client of Cubase anymore
| Tones2 wrote: | The point is that we can all get any 3rd party plug-in we need that can do much better what Steinberg includes as plug-ins. What we CAN'T get from 3rd parties is CORE FUNCTION enhancements. This should be the focus of Cubase development. There's have been things requested for years and years that STILL have not been implemented.
Tony |
summed up perfectly!
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| dada wrote: |
Sadly, the focus has narrowed and shifted.
Steinberg has obviously decided, to leave studio owners and soundengineers behind.
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Last edited by LSD-Studio on Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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ts-12
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| faun2500 wrote: | | Tones2 wrote: | The point is that we can all get any 3rd party plug-in we need that can do much better what Steinberg includes as plug-ins. What we CAN'T get from 3rd parties is CORE FUNCTION enhancements. This should be the focus of Cubase development. There's have been things requested for years and years that STILL have not been implemented.
Tony |
Thats it init. We don't need these new toys. We need bug fixes. Autiomation to work, crashes to stop. THEN make some new toys for the kids.
hahaha
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+1
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Doublehelix
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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There are lots of cool things in C5, and to me it looks like it is built from C4, which hopefully means that we will maintain the stability from C4. This would be a great step forward if it is as stable as Chris says it is. As he puts it, that is the most important thing that the developers can do.
I applaud the attitude! That is the direction that things need to be heading, especially after the rocky C4 release.
| Beryliam wrote: | | Quote: | | The band are usually given 2 months or so to get this all written. |
If the band can't do it in two months someone has been less than pro with the label's business plan for that band. So somebody booked a band who had nothing going for them except the haircuts? |
Let's see, 12 songs in 2 months, that is 1.5 songs a week, *every* week for 2 months. Oh yeah, and they have to be commercially viable, *and* well-rehearsed. Hmmm.... seems simple enough to me. I don't understand why everybody isn't doing it!
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OurDarkness
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ts-12 wrote: | | faun2500 wrote: | | Tones2 wrote: | The point is that we can all get any 3rd party plug-in we need that can do much better what Steinberg includes as plug-ins. What we CAN'T get from 3rd parties is CORE FUNCTION enhancements. This should be the focus of Cubase development. There's have been things requested for years and years that STILL have not been implemented.
Tony |
Thats it init. We don't need these new toys. We need bug fixes. Autiomation to work, crashes to stop. THEN make some new toys for the kids.
hahaha
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+1 |
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Doctor Dongle
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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When it comes to bugs, will it be right to assume that C5 builds on the latest C4 so that at least the shared code only has already known bugs not a lot of new ones? As if it could be Cubase 4.9.99999 and then with some new features added that, of course, could introduce new bugs.
I just ordered C5, so I am wondering what to expect. Hopefully not a repeat of what happened from SX3 to C4. But I also have a feeling that more core code was rewritten for that upgrade.
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Chris Beuermann
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split
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Beuermann wrote: |
That the multi lane editing is wanted by users we do not forget.
Gr,
Chris |
That is good news indeed, as long a we don't have to wait till V6
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LSD-Studio
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Beuermann wrote: | Hello LSD,
i do a lot of live recording with Cubase, and it never has let me down.
I personaly (and most of the bands I worked with) don't want to "tighten" everything up of the recording. It will vanish the "feeling/vibe" thing. That the multi lane editing is wanted by users we do not forget.
Gr,
Chris |
well, I have to agree 100%, but as mentioed earlier it's unfortunately not always possible to get the perfect rehearsed band into the studio (see sections about deadlines) so tightening is often a sad necessity to achieve a result that can compete with todays (granted, sometimes too polished) productions (I'm doing mainly metal, as you can perhaps tell ...although I did quite some other stuff from jazz to ethnic as well...metal needs the most tightening of course).
Anyway, I see that Steinberg is not about to change and bring these (by now old) standards into the next version of Cubase.
It's sad, but I can live with it (have to) I'll still upgrade to C5 (just like the workflow of cubase) but have to get PT8 as well to be able to keep up with the market.
I'm aware that you can't fulfill everybody's wishes, so I just gotta live with that.
reingehau'n
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| dada wrote: |
Sadly, the focus has narrowed and shifted.
Steinberg has obviously decided, to leave studio owners and soundengineers behind.
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RdRm
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Beuermann wrote: | Hello LSD,
i do a lot of live recording with Cubase, and it never has let me down.
I personaly (and most of the bands I worked with) don't want to "tighten" everything up of the recording. It will vanish the "feeling/vibe" thing. That the multi lane editing is wanted by users we do not forget.
Gr,
Chris |
Well at least give us tabs to transients on the project page would this not help
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dada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| LSD-Studio wrote: | | I'm a die hard cubase fan and often get into arguments about that with partners/colleagues from America, Labels DEMANDING PT (sad fact) etc. |
Yep ... and there You have one of the main reasons, that Engineer Features are low on Steinberg's priority list.
It's kind of a viscous circle.
bye, Jan |
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stonefree
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| RdRm wrote: | \
Well at least give us tabs to transients on the project page would this not help |
Another feature I would really like to have seen. It doesn't seem like any of the features I was hoping for are there.
1) Movable freeze (essential for UAD)
2) Multiout instrument tracks
3) Tab to transients
4) Improved mixer views (list of inserts, sends, EQ graphic in a single view)
5) Improved Rewire (we don't need "Rewire tracks"- just treat them as an insert or I/O on an Instrument track)
These are on most if not all competing DAWs.
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laex
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| OurDarkness wrote: | | ts-12 wrote: | | faun2500 wrote: | | Tones2 wrote: | ... What we CAN'T get from 3rd parties is CORE FUNCTION enhancements. This should be the focus of Cubase development. There's have been things requested for years and years that STILL have not been implemented.
Tony |
Thats it init. We don't need these new toys. We need bug fixes. Autiomation to work, crashes to stop. THEN make some new toys for the kids.
hahaha |
+1 |
+1 |
+1
Random beat slicer/generator belongs into category toys, definitely - I don't have use for it whatsoever...
But a lot of the other new things are great and will help me getting my everyday work done! But I must also admit that there are very few utmostly important things still missing that would make Cubase the definite number one audio production tool and I don't understand why Steinberg doesn't seem to get those done. It's just three or four things that a lot of users ask for again and again and again...
I hope that C5 is stable, then I'll gladly update, although I'm not overwhelmed with what I've seen so far. |
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stonefree
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| moskvariver wrote: | Here we have audio-oriented users upset that a PT8/Sonar/Live feature is not in Cubase, and we have other self-proclaimed audio experts calling them idiots for wanting the feature
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I think a big difference between Cubase and other DAWs is I doubt Sonar/Logic/Live users are particularly envious of many features in Cubase. I don't think many of them wish they had Mediabay, Soundframe, Control Room, etc. A few years ago it was a different story, but their developers listened to user feedback and implemented missing features rather than introduce solutions in search of problems.
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kenporter
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Well, I had a chance to check out the Cubase 5 demo at NAMM today and play with it a little as well. Cubase 5 feels great imho. I love the audio to MIDI slicer (finally!!!!)! Just because I don't record live bands or do film scoring I may not be considered professional enough by some, even though you can find my songs in Dance Dance Ultramix, movies, and a remix of mine was #1 on the German charts (DAC) in 2008 just to name a few, but I must say personally I think Cubase 5 is a great update! I am still excited! 
Ken
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Sonik
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:18 am Post subject: |
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So the audio to midi could be used to trigger, like Drumagog?
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TheOracle
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| laex wrote: |
Random beat slicer/generator belongs into category toys, definitely - I don't have use for it whatsoever...
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Because you don't have a use for it, it's a toy? Wow, that's an argument. Btw., Timbaland was impressed by these "toys" but he might not be professional enough to judge.
To be more serious, there are tools to get the job done and tools to be creative. To play around with a creative tool that could give you some inspiration for new ideas does not make it a toy.
Anyhow, the good news is that we have decided not to stop the further development of future Cubase versions. And that non creative working tools a la "Beat Detective" are also in our focus. |
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shadewind
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| stonefree wrote: | | moskvariver wrote: | Here we have audio-oriented users upset that a PT8/Sonar/Live feature is not in Cubase, and we have other self-proclaimed audio experts calling them idiots for wanting the feature
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I think a big difference between Cubase and other DAWs is I doubt Sonar/Logic/Live users are particularly envious of many features in Cubase. I don't think many of them wish they had Mediabay, Soundframe, Control Room, etc. A few years ago it was a different story, but their developers listened to user feedback and implemented missing features rather than introduce solutions in search of problems. |
The control room feature is very important to me. This way, I can make headphone mixes and such with much less hassle. |
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freejay
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm surprised an exited and looking forward to it!
I have a smile on my face! 
Imagine I'd be one of these guys who are always and any time complaining, complaining and complaining about whatever is there or what is not there. I couldn't live there lifes. I'd kill myself... 
Back to smiling: |
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Rezon8
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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does the creator of this topic work for Steinberg ???
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shadewind
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, who would look forward to this update otherwise? I mean, Steinberg IS the devil in corporation form, right? Everybody knows that, right?
Give me a break... |
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Fuzzymusic
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Rezon8 wrote: | does the creator of this topic work for Steinberg ???
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no... just using their products
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Beryliam
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Doublehelix wrote: |
| Beryliam wrote: | | Quote: | | The band are usually given 2 months or so to get this all written. |
If the band can't do it in two months someone has been less than pro with the label's business plan for that band. So somebody booked a band who had nothing going for them except the haircuts? |
Let's see, 12 songs in 2 months, that is 1.5 songs a week, *every* week for 2 months. Oh yeah, and they have to be commercially viable, *and* well-rehearsed. Hmmm.... seems simple enough to me. I don't understand why everybody isn't doing it! |
Neither can I. What's holding everyone up? Oh, yes. The haircuts. 1.5 songs a week, rehearsals and mixing is so easy. They used to do it in the stone age before the age of wonderful eleckytrick recordinge tooles such as Cubase which were designed to make things even easier than sticky tape.
There are wonderful musicians out there and studios should not pressure themselves because a lazy Record company project manager uses cheap chimps. It's a hard time for studios and you really need less pressure not more. A bad end product does not make things any easier and one still can't polish a turd. And if it needs more than two weeks to write three songs it's a turd. And I've yet to see an unstretched deadline for a record label. TV & radio? Well you might lose the odd nights sleep so what? Goes with the country.
The pro way would be to look at what CAN be done with the new version of Cubase as well as what can't. Find a working norm, stick to it and keep the bells and whistles to iron out any problems along the way.
Flanging is a wonderful toy that everyone wants/ed. But it only got it's name because as one played back the song on two machines you slowed one down by pressing one's finger on the FLANGE of one of them (ok, you all knew that). There are lots of creative tricks one can do with Cubase but I've yet to hear them be exploited commercially. Looks like I may be the first one. |
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st@g
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Well, in the times of tape and razor some incredible stuff was done by clever and creative engineers. Like having two takes of a tune. One had the perfect 2minutes at the brginning the other take had the perfect 2 final minutes. What to do cut and paste... but the second take was played half tone down. No problem just accelerate the speed of the reel until it match the pitch of the first one.
Today an engineer\producer has it a lot more easier. Anyway, the pressure is there. I don´t know how others work but i welcome pressure. Pressure is a lot more stimulant to the creative process than any sequencer.
Did you notice the difference it is by playing by yourself, in rehearsal or at a crowded gig? I always play better the more people is watching. The more standing straight up i am and the sense of purpose in communicate with people gives me all the confidence i need.
Who has already entered in the studio with 12 songs completely rehearsed and ready to go just to drop 4 in the way and come with 4 new ones which happens to be the best... Thank pressure.
Man, I love it. I miss it. 
Hey! Beryliam: 
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S4410
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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well to get back on topic ,i must say that after watching the videos here in Steinberg and on Sonic State
i am impressed too by the new features.Although i own Melodyne,i 'll compare it with the new C5 pitch correction
and if it satisfies me i may sell my Melodyne licence.I'll have to wait for the new DNA thing to see.
But there are many new exciting things in C5,batch export(at last!),convolusion reverb,new automation,
instrument articulation to name some...
I'm still a bit skeptical about the different prices from euro to dollar to pound to whatever,these are tough times
economical,and i own 2 licencies (C4 and C4studio)...
Anyway,if it works without major bugs,good work Steiberg!
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dcWAVE
Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Beuermann wrote: | Hello LSD,
Many of the Producers using Cubase/Nuendo. I believe last summer more then 60 procent of the music that was in the "top 40" in the USA was made with our hosts.
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I call B.S. Which 24 of the Top 40 were made with Steinberg sequencers? And if so, is it really that impressive to have someone loop samples for 3 or 4 minutes (which I am sure get mixed on PT)?
| Chris Beuermann wrote: |
Please do not forget who started 25 years ago, and who has copied features from who
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I'll give props where props are due but come on... 25 years ago you were a midi app. Its only been in the last 10-12 years that you got the audio side working well and all of you copy from one another.
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